Men's Health

In this candid conversation, Van Sedita, Nate Phillips, and John Molina-Moore take on men’s health through stories of stress, faith, and vulnerability. What starts with beard lotion jokes quickly opens into a serious and deeply honest exchange about how men process—or avoid processing—emotions.

John shares how stress physically manifested as back pain despite being in the best shape of his life, revealing how the body often tells the truth before we do. Nate connects that experience to learned childhood patterns and “small-t” trauma—those early lessons about when it was or wasn’t safe to rest, cry, or fail. Together they trace how these unexamined coping habits—sports, work, over-productivity—carry into adulthood and can quietly become poisons instead of medicine.

From there, the discussion turns spiritual. Nate reframes the Parable of the Talents with a subtle but transformative “but” in the text, shifting it from a story of punishment and performance to one of grace and relational worth. The group links that insight to the modern pressure for men to constantly prove value—physically, professionally, and even spiritually.

By the end, the episode expands outward: from childhood wounds to cultural masculinity, from personal stress to systemic harm. John names the reality that men commit most acts of violence, and the hosts wonder how unprocessed pain feeds that pattern. Van asks whether framing the issue as “men’s health” is even the right lens, or whether we should talk instead about human wholeness and the undervalued work of nurture.

Through humor, humility, and faith, the episode lands on a hopeful note: that men’s health begins not with dominance or denial, but with balance—between inner child and adult self, between productivity and presence, between masculine and feminine energies that make a whole life sacred.

(summary of Transcript by ChatGPT)

We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/

Transcript

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Van Sedita: John, you seem to have, in… and I know, Nate, you suggested this topic, so you get to go first, but John, you seem to have…

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Nate Phillips: Bob…

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Van Sedita: A focused interest in, um…

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Van Sedita: in talking about this after you and I text messaged a little bit, but…

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Van Sedita: Nate, um, you know…

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Van Sedita: the… the chat GPT… what?

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Nate Phillips: Are you recording?

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Nate Phillips: Are you recording?

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Van Sedita: I am. Thank you for checking.

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John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

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Nate Phillips: Okay.

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Van Sedita: Um, I appreciate it, especially after the Rachel debacle.

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Nate Phillips: Yes.

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Van Sedita: Yeah.

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Van Sedita: Has she brought that up to you? Does she want to stick me with a fork? Okay.

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Nate Phillips: No.

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Van Sedita: Um, the…

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Van Sedita: The ChatGPT summary of what we should talk about in men's health is, um…

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Van Sedita: Pretty nice that someone should start with vulnerability.

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Van Sedita: Um, and talk about it.

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Van Sedita: honestly, how they struggle with men's health. I don't know which one of you captains want to go first.

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Van Sedita: And vulnerably say why.

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Van Sedita: Men's health is important to you, or why you've seen it important within the congregation and the group of peers that you're…

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Van Sedita: Sort of always around. I will let you guys decide.

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Nate Phillips: Oh, I didn't want to do anything vulnerable, who wants to do that on Halloween?

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Nate Phillips: I'm more interested in the lotion that John uses for his beard.

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John Molina-Moore: Two, two, two treatments.

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Nate Phillips: Which are?

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John Molina-Moore: Um, well, there's a lot of treatments. There's a washing process, there's a conditioning process, and then there's a…

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John Molina-Moore: Deep skin moisturizer, and then there's a pomade that goes on top.

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John Molina-Moore: But it's not daily, that's not… that's not a daily.

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Nate Phillips: Oh, okay.

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John Molina-Moore: There's a… there's a… there's a schedule to it.

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John Molina-Moore: And then… then there's… there's trimming and upkeep.

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Nate Phillips: What? Wha…

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John Molina-Moore: Detangling?

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Nate Phillips: So, what is your daily…

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Nate Phillips: what would you say? This is my daily… like, I actually think that, like, um…

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Nate Phillips: You know, health is one of those, just.

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Nate Phillips: Figuring out the right habits kinds of things.

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Nate Phillips: Because…

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Nate Phillips: you know, we're never gonna do it perfectly, you know what I mean? And so, like…

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Nate Phillips: there's… each of us, I think, has ha… what would you say are, like, your health habits, John?

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John Molina-Moore: Ooh.

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Nate Phillips: I'm bearing up the beard thing, because it's kind of funny, but, like, that's one of your habits, is taking care of your skin. Yeah.

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John Molina-Moore: Correct, right? Yeah, yeah.

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John Molina-Moore: Um…

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Nate Phillips: And let's face it, men don't take care of their skin very well.

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John Molina-Moore: Well, I don't think… yes, I just… and that goes to the whole big thing of taking care of the whole self, and I think the easy… the easy one is, I'll do skincare, right? I'll make sure I eat right, I'll make sure that I maybe exercise.

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Nate Phillips: Yeah.

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John Molina-Moore: a little bit more, and there's… there is… I would like to better discover a more holistic health approach. Great example.

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John Molina-Moore: I am in… I'm 40…

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John Molina-Moore: Who? I think I'm 42. I'm 42.

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Nate Phillips: You are… you are definitely older than 42.

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John Molina-Moore: I'm 42.

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John Molina-Moore: 1983, yeah, 42.

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John Molina-Moore: And… I'm in some of the best, like, physical shape and condition that I've been in probably in the past, like, definitely since having kids, right? And I'm now biking to the office one day a week, I look at my calendar and decide, hey, I don't have any meetings anywhere outside of the office, it's not gonna rain, I'm biking this day, and it's 12 miles each way. So I do that, and that's been the month and a half, right?

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Nate Phillips: Hm.

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John Molina-Moore: Mountain bike every chance that I get. I try to jog. If I'm good, like, two mornings.

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John Molina-Moore: a month, um…

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John Molina-Moore: Okay, so all of that.

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John Molina-Moore: And I take the boys out biking on…

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John Molina-Moore: I went off a friend biking on Saturday, I took the boys biking after church on Sunday. And we're… we're laps on this park that we love.

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John Molina-Moore: And I'm with kids, I'm not going crazy. Out of nowhere, my lower back just, like.

00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:00.000
John Molina-Moore: And, like, there's… there was no incident that triggered it, yadda yadda. I was telling Van, I have, like.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.000
John Molina-Moore: crazy stress.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:09.000
John Molina-Moore: at work right now, like, crazy abundance. And Amy and I, Amy was always like, dude, John, this is…

00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.000
John Molina-Moore: This is… this is the holistic, right? Not…

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:28.000
John Molina-Moore: processing it, and not dealing with it, and now it's fully manifesting. And even when I called my Teladoc, she's like, oh, absolutely, it's stress-induced. I was like, dang, my body can, even though I think it's in good shape, can say, like, you have to slow down and stop, John. Um…

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.000
John Molina-Moore: And I'm gonna… I am going to make you, I'm gonna force you.

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John Molina-Moore: To actually, uh…

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.000
John Molina-Moore: to do that, right? Um, so…

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John Molina-Moore: Right, yes, routines are great, but I think if, especially men, don't then do the vulnerability stuff, right? The actual health of the interior, um…

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John Molina-Moore: I didn't… any of you watch Bill Burr's Drop Dead? Drop Dead Age special?

00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.000
Nate Phillips: No.

00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:04.000
John Molina-Moore: Oh, you have to go back and watch this. Um, because it's about that generation of men who just…

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:18.000
John Molina-Moore: drop dead, right? And he's like, we know what it's from, because you… you stop crying, right? You never actually talked to anybody, and you held up, so it's no… it's no surprise that, like, you drop dead. And he does a good thing. He's like, men are allowed to only have two.

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:37.000
John Molina-Moore: emotions. Fine and angry. And he does this thing about how easily you go from, yeah, I'm fine, and now you're back to, like, being pissed off, and he's like, but men feel every emotion in between those, but we're not allowed to talk about it because that's supposed to be gay. And the way he does this lyric is so…

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John Molina-Moore: It is so good, and for me, that is the mental health conversation.

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.000
John Molina-Moore: that I think we have to be talking about, about what is the…

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John Molina-Moore: What is the way that men, uh, get to…

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John Molina-Moore: Fully… just like we would treat the outside portion of our body with good routine and regimen and all of that.

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.000
John Molina-Moore: For the interior, um, that isn't just…

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.000
John Molina-Moore: uh, you know.

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:18.000
John Molina-Moore: holding stuff back, and cramming it in, and maybe one day it'll get better, and it'll eventually go away. Like, that's what I'm doing, right? I just tell myself, uh, we're almost through this situation, and…

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.000
John Molina-Moore: Maybe by January, we'll be at the end, and…

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Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.000
John Molina-Moore: And not being, like…

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.000
John Molina-Moore: Spending time to sit with, like, this sucks, here's how it's affecting me.

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, and I get to talk about it, and…

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Nate Phillips: Yeah, I mean, we've made it a thing, though, that, like, talking about it is the solution.

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Nate Phillips: Do you think that's the case?

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John Molina-Moore: Yeah, correct. I don't think talking about it is a solution. I think that that is one… that's the easiest way into, like.

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John Molina-Moore: Into processing, um.

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.000
John Molina-Moore: processing it.

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:56.000
Nate Phillips: Mm-hmm. So, you're saying that what we need to do is…

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Nate Phillips: The healthy thing to do is to process the stuff.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.000
Nate Phillips: Because, I mean…

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Nate Phillips: I'm 48, so that's why I don't believe you that you're 42. Um…

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.000
Nate Phillips: And I can just tell you that, um…

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Nate Phillips: You know, at 40, you think.

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Nate Phillips: once I get through this thing.

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Nate Phillips: then it's gonna be better. And then you get to the time you're 48, and I'm betting it when you're 65, you're having the same thing, where you're like, wait…

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Nate Phillips: The thing that got better maybe got better, but then the next thing, like, just came.

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Nate Phillips: Oh, we froze.

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John Molina-Moore: Okay, I'm back, that was me, I just got a weird connection thing.

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John Molina-Moore: Okay.

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.000
Nate Phillips: But what I was saying was.

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Nate Phillips: By the time you're…

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Nate Phillips: Um, you get to, you know, your next year, and your next year, and your next year, you just realize that the thing that you were stressed about just shifted to the next thing that you were…

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John Molina-Moore: Correct.

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.000
Nate Phillips: You were… you were stressed about, and…

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Nate Phillips: There's probably some deep-seated.

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Nate Phillips: like, childhood stuff related to it as well. I mean, I watch some people process this stuff much better than I do, and I go, wow, they must have had an amazing, like.

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:13.000
Nate Phillips: I don't know… childhood or something? I'm like, that… good on them.

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John Molina-Moore: Dude, Amy just finished this, um…

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John Molina-Moore: Trauma-informed yoga training stuff, and…

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Nate Phillips: Mhm.

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John Molina-Moore: all the, like, trauma… like, I feel like I've always interpreted when people say trauma-informed to, like, be the big T trauma, like, you know, massive whatever, whatever stuff.

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John Molina-Moore: And that's not actually what.

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John Molina-Moore: The mental health professional world is talking about of trauma.

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John Molina-Moore: Trauma isn't, like, the event that happened to you, it's all the stuff that then happened after the event. And your brain doesn't know the difference between something like.

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John Molina-Moore: awful, right? Awful, and…

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John Molina-Moore: some of it wasn't just a great parenting tactic, right? But if there wasn't the, like, support after that, or…

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:06.000
John Molina-Moore: your brain processes them as the exact same way. So, all of us, and this is no slight on anybody who raised any of us, right? They did their best.

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.000
John Molina-Moore: All of us have this childhood.

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:13.000
John Molina-Moore: Trauma stuff where we weren't, um…

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John Molina-Moore: it wasn't safe to, like, need something. You were immediately, as you were 1 years old, shown that, like, you gotta figure it out for yourself. So everybody has all this type stuff in your most formative years of what it means to be a human being. And all of that comes up anytime you are processing stress, or dealing with a negative, bad situation.

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.000
John Molina-Moore: And if you're not aware of, like.

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John Molina-Moore: those childhood things, and some of them we're never gonna know because we were 9 months old, right? Um, but everybody has… has that stuff in them, and I'm now just beginning to, like, oh, I wonder if this is because… my response to this is because of…

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John Molina-Moore: things that happened when I was.

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John Molina-Moore: 5… that I remember, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, that let me know, well, hey, when things are like this, it's not safe. I'm gonna give you a great example, and me and my brother talked about this yesterday.

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John Molina-Moore: In our house, it was not safe to just, like.

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John Molina-Moore: Sit down and relax, right?

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John Molina-Moore: You were supposed to be doing something, cleaning up the… and so when my mom was gone, and…

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.000
John Molina-Moore: we were then like, okay, well, now we get to watch TV.

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.000
John Molina-Moore: But, like, the minute a door closed in the car.

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John Molina-Moore: You, like, got up and, like, picked something up, then turned the TV off, and you act like you had been working the whole time you were gone. And now that's, like, still in me, right? If I'm at home, and I hear the front door, I, like, get up, and I have to tell myself, like.

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John Molina-Moore: What am I… this is my house!

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

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John Molina-Moore: what am I doing, right? I can relax in my own home, but I have now have.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.000
John Molina-Moore: Programming in me that says.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.000
John Molina-Moore: you're not supposed to, right? And…

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:06.000
John Molina-Moore: So I only get to relax outside the walls of my house, because when I was a kid.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.000
John Molina-Moore: the relaxing that I had didn't happen inside the house. It happened…

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:19.000
John Molina-Moore: riding my bike. It happened playing with… playing football with friends. It were all things outside of the house. So, I was telling Van, I studied… I studied Lee this last week.

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:23.000
John Molina-Moore: Catch up on some stuff, a bunch of books I really need to read, and…

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John Molina-Moore: I… it's hard for me to sit in my house during sunlight hours and read a book without this tape in my head that's like.

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:41.000
John Molina-Moore: you gotta replace this thing, that thing needs to be fixed, you should probably clean this up, those things need to go to the dump, this thing needs to go to the Goodwill, and, like, that thing is running through my head, rather than, like.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:48.000
John Molina-Moore: This is my week to do nothing but focus on this, but I can't do it inside my house. And so my plan was…

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John Molina-Moore: to go biking, and to put the books in my backpack, and ride for 5 miles, and sit down for an hour on a really cool bench somewhere, and read for an hour and a half, and then get back on the bike, and ride a little bit more, and then read a little more. But my back messed that whole thing up, and now I'm in this, like, I can't do this in my house!

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm. Ah.

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John Molina-Moore: because of my little T trauma from a kid about, like, it's not… you are not safe doing that inside the walls of the house. And if I hadn't been, like, thinking about that, I would just continue to drive myself nuts about, like, why can't I relax.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.000
John Molina-Moore: In my own home, without this, like, constant fear that.

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John Molina-Moore: Somebody's gonna come in and say, oh, you should be doing this, and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, I mean, another example of that, it's… it's…

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Nate Phillips: Probably pretty common with men as well is related to sports.

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Nate Phillips: So, one of the things that I know about my life is that when I was succeeding in sports, things were better.

00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.000
Nate Phillips: Right? For the whole family.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.000
Nate Phillips: And so…

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.000
Nate Phillips: You felt like… and so this is kind of like the opposite of what you're saying, but fully related.

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.000
Nate Phillips: So, instead of, like, you're…

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.000
Nate Phillips: you're bad. It's like, this is what…

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.000
Nate Phillips: Can happen when you're good.

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:11.000
Nate Phillips: Right? So, when you're good at sports, at least in my house, it was like, I had all… we had all these problems in our house.

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.000
Nate Phillips: Millions of them, right?

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.000
John Molina-Moore: Mhm.

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.000
Nate Phillips: But when I'm winning.

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000
Nate Phillips: Things are great.

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Nate Phillips: And so, I'm like, oh, so that's the trick.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.000
Nate Phillips: That's the whole trick, is all I've gotta do is win.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.000
Nate Phillips: And, now, as a father.

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Nate Phillips: If there's one place I'm the worst parent possible, it's related to sports.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.000
John Molina-Moore: Hmm.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.000
Nate Phillips: And I think this is probably the case with many, many men.

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:45.000
Nate Phillips: is that they experience this in their lives, where they're like, when I was good at sports.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:50.000
Nate Phillips: Or, even if I wasn't good at sports, I saw other kids.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.000
Nate Phillips: That were good, and I had the life.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:53.000
John Molina-Moore: Yup.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.000
Nate Phillips: And so… and their family seemed good.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:12.000
John Molina-Moore: Dude, it is… it's the same thing, right? Because if you're not winning or doing well at sports, don't you know life is gonna crumble, and, like, it's gonna fall apart for you, so you gotta, like… because that's all that you knew about, like, this is when it's safe, is when things are working out in sports. And so if you don't do that.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.000
Nate Phillips: And…

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.000
Nate Phillips: Yes.

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Nate Phillips: Great.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.000
Nate Phillips: Correct.

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.000
John Molina-Moore: It's gonna… it's gonna fall apart on you, right?

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Nate Phillips: Right. And the hard part is, is there's a little truth in there.

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.000
Nate Phillips: That's actually the hard part, because…

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.000
Nate Phillips: It would be better if life wasn't that way.

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.000
Nate Phillips: But there is an aspect of it where there's truth.

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:35.000
Nate Phillips: But we take it, like, when we have the trauma.

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.000
Nate Phillips: built in, right? Like, when you have the bad…

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Nate Phillips: Stuff going on in the childhood.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.000
Nate Phillips: And then you pair that with…

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.000
Nate Phillips: the success, it, like, amplifies the whole thing. So it's not bad.

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Nate Phillips: To, like, want your kid.

00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.000
Nate Phillips: To be able to, like…

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:58.000
Nate Phillips: ride their bike well, right? Or throw a football, or whatever it is. It's not bad for them, and for you to go, like.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:54.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.000
Nate Phillips: yeah, this is gonna be good for you. Like, if you can do this, this is like…

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.000
Nate Phillips: part of, like, your training ground? Look, we've always done this, and initiating…

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:22.000
Nate Phillips: teenagers, right? Like, throughout all of history, you know? So this is good, that they are able to kind of explore… I mean, my son, my 13-year-old, and I had this conversation last night after soccer practice, where it's like, you're… this is a safe place to explore a lot of the…

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:30.000
Nate Phillips: the ways in which you're gonna interact with people throughout your whole life, and you're gonna push here, and you're gonna push there, you're gonna see what works, and all that, so that's all good.

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.000
Nate Phillips: But, I think a lot of men, I can say for myself, that, like.

00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.000
Nate Phillips: It gets UN… it becomes unhealthy because…

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.000
Nate Phillips: Of how it got paired in our own childhood to…

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Nate Phillips: a system, health.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
Nate Phillips: in the family unit. So now we're like, everything's at stake.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.000
John Molina-Moore: Correct.

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Nate Phillips: Actually, not everything is at stake.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:52.000
John Molina-Moore: Oh.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.000
Nate Phillips: Something might be, but not everything.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:01.000
John Molina-Moore: And then if you, if you… and I imagine you're just as guilty as I am of this. If you never then evolve.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:13.000
John Molina-Moore: your coping mechanisms, it's easy for it to be sports when you're 9, because that's really the kind of only tool you have at hand, right? But, like, if you then get into your 40s.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:25.000
John Molina-Moore: And just me, I was even saying, I was like, I don't know what condition I would be in mentally if I hadn't been riding my bike. And it's like, wait a minute, why do I still have the same, like.

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:23.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:31.000
John Molina-Moore: here's how to make things okay that I did when I was 11 years old, right?

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:39.000
John Molina-Moore: it's tough, let me go and ride my bike, right? I'm doing the same thing that I did when I was a kid, but I have access to.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:48.000
John Molina-Moore: so much more life experience, so many more tools, so many more ways of thinking, and I'm not incorporating those, I'm going back to.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Nate Phillips: Hmm.

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.000
John Molina-Moore: the… the survival technique that I had, which worked very well… it worked!

00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:02.000
John Molina-Moore: Right? It helped me to become a whole human being when I was 11. Um, and I'm now 42, and I'm using the same.

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:12.000
John Molina-Moore: tools, and this is no slight on that one. I want to continue on that one. I know that exerting myself is a healthy stress reliever outlet.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:19.000
John Molina-Moore: But it can no longer be… it should no longer be the only one. And I have now gone 30 years with…

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:24.000
John Molina-Moore: well, this is… this… this is what I do, right? This is how my body knows that I'm safe.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:36.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, and there's so much more going on now, um, and I'm realizing more stuff because I'm older and more seasoned, and more experienced, and I can't use the same thing that I had when I was an adolescent.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.000
Nate Phillips: And you're talking about that word safe, and that word even is… becomes like this…

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Van Sedita: Whoop.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.000
Nate Phillips: trigger word for men. It's like, we can't even…

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.000
Nate Phillips: We can't even accept that that's…

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:56.000
Nate Phillips: something we want and need. And the truth is, is that you're 100% right, that when… I'm gonna go back to the story I was telling about creating that safe space, because I succeeded in sports.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.000
John Molina-Moore: Correct.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.000
Nate Phillips: And…

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.000
Nate Phillips: What… one of the things…

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.000
Nate Phillips: One of the things that I've always loved is this…

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Nate Phillips: I think it was Seth Godin where I read it, but I'm sure it's been written by a million people, but…

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:14.000
Nate Phillips: this idea of the amygdala, right? And the amygdala being, um, that part of your brain.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.000
Nate Phillips: That… that evolved to help us.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Nate Phillips: Um, basically get scared of a saber-toothed tiger, because the saber-toothed tiger's gonna kill us.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.000
John Molina-Moore: And you have one option.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.000
Nate Phillips: And that's what you gotta do, you gotta run. And…

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.000
Nate Phillips: you know, what Godin will say is.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.000
Nate Phillips: You know, not everything's a saber-toothed tiger.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.000
Nate Phillips: Right? And… and so…

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Nate Phillips: we gotta do that work, right? And your kid not being able to throw a football is not a saber-toothed tiger.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:45.000
Nate Phillips: Right? Like, it may be better for them if they could do that, but if they can't, and they'd rather play the violin.

00:29:45.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Nate Phillips: Like, that can be a thing for them, where they feel enriched. Like, I feel like… you're doing this thing, and I may be doing it differently, I'm looking at it from a father's perspective for the child, you're talking about it from your own perspective, from your childhood to an adult, but, like, I think it's all interconnected.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.000
John Molina-Moore: Yup.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:09.000
Nate Phillips: like, you know, we as grown men now have to do a much better job, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone, of, like, not…

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.000
Nate Phillips: freaking out, because…

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.000
Nate Phillips: Our kid… you're worried about the safety of your kid.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.000
Nate Phillips: Because they're not building the same…

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:24.000
Nate Phillips: safety track as you did, you know what I mean? Um, and… and…

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.000
Nate Phillips: And that, that just will stress you out also, by the way.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Nate Phillips: So… cycle.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.000
John Molina-Moore: And there's also the layer of, like, the…

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:59.000
John Molina-Moore: the American hard-working work ethic, right? That I have to… I have to constantly be… be justifying my existence because I'm productive, and like, that's… there's no way any of us have escaped that, right? Even if our parents did our best to try not to enforce that, it's the… it's the air that all of us… all of us breathe. And I think if we aren't aware that that is always.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:10.000
John Molina-Moore: there, and we can easily slip into those expectations that we… maybe even only us created, right? That I have to constantly be showing my value and my worth by what I can.

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.000
John Molina-Moore: Make, produce, uh…

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:30.000
John Molina-Moore: amass, and that then becomes the identity of who I am supposed to be, and I don't think any of that is healthy at all whatsoever, right? But it's easy to go like, well, I'm supposed to be productive right now, right?

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.000
Nate Phillips: Well, and what's crazy is that, like.

00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:35.000
Nate Phillips: You know, so much of this is, you know, we leverage the…

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:40.000
Nate Phillips: faith traditions, and especially in my world, right, the Christian tradition on this, and.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:51.000
Nate Phillips: you know, I… there's these parables, right, about the talents, which I would love to… like, we could talk about the parable of the talents. I have an interpretation on that that basically upends every sermon I've ever heard on that.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Nate Phillips: Um, because I don't think it's… I don't think it's talking about…

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:01.000
Nate Phillips: I mean, we should get a Bible out, because I don't think it's talking about, like.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:10.000
Nate Phillips: how, you know, you buried your talent, and now you're going to hell. In fact, what happens at the end of that text, if you keep reading, this is the problem.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Nate Phillips: is you get this one story, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna preach on this story. And it's part of an extended story.

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:21.000
Nate Phillips: And if you look at the end of that story.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:31.000
Nate Phillips: It turns. And there's actually a Greek word that gets left out of the English translation, and it's the word but.

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:43.000
Nate Phillips: So, so, it talks about this parallel of the talents, and it makes it seem like if you buried your talent, I don't know if everybody's tracking with this story, you buried your talent, then you're, like, going to bad places.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.000
Nate Phillips: And then, if you continue reading.

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.000
Nate Phillips: Matt, do you have this open van?

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.000
Van Sedita: Yes.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Nate Phillips: So, it's… read it.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000
Nate Phillips: Matthew 25, right?

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:02.000
Van Sedita: Matthew 25, 14, For it will be like a man going on a journey who called his servants and entrusted.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.000
Van Sedita: To them, his property.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, go to the end of that story.

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.000
Van Sedita: For some reason, it's all in red, which is throwing me off.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:15.000
Van Sedita: And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:21.000
Nate Phillips: And we, like, ingrain this, right? Like, this is, like, what it is, this work worthless servant. Now keep reading, what's the next thing say?

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.000
Van Sedita: In that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.000
Nate Phillips: I know. Awful. Keep going.

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.000
Van Sedita: When the Son of Man comes in His glory.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.000
Nate Phillips: There it is. There it is.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.000
Van Sedita: And all the angels with him.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.000
Nate Phillips: Nope. Yeah, wait, wait.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.000
Van Sedita: Then he will sit on his glorious throne.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.000
Nate Phillips: So, so right there.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Nate Phillips: There's a Greek word that gets left out.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.000
Nate Phillips: And the word is but. So go back, and before you say the word when, say the word BUT. Go ahead, read the two sentences.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.000
Van Sedita: But, when the Son of Man.

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.000
Nate Phillips: No, no, no, say… yes!

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:53.000
Van Sedita: comes in His glory, and all the angels with him.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000
Van Sedita: Then he will sit on this glorious throne.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000
Van Sedita: Interesting.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Nate Phillips: And then… and then what happens is, Jesus gives this new way of doing evaluation.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:07.000
Nate Phillips: And… and this, this whole story about how…

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:27.000
Nate Phillips: yeah, you guys do things that way. That's how I interpret the parable of the talents. This is how you guys do things. That if things get buried and you don't do everything you were supposed to do, you're gonna end up in eternal torment. But when the Son of Man comes and sits on his throne, this is how things are gonna get evaluated. And what he says from there is.

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.000
John Molina-Moore: This is how it is, right now, yeah.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.000
Nate Phillips: when I was hungry and you fed me.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:41.000
Nate Phillips: And when you… I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, this is how things get evaluated in my kingdom when I'm sitting on the throne. And if we could get that pushed out.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.000
Nate Phillips: That's a much different way of looking at life.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Nate Phillips: Right? Then, then this… this endless…

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:53.000
Nate Phillips: cycle of, of, of, I don't do enough, and so I'm worthless.

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.000
Nate Phillips: Instead, it becomes this relational.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:01.000
Nate Phillips: Am I there for others that are in need? Like, that's where my… my value…

00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.000
John Molina-Moore: Yes.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.000
John Molina-Moore: That's where my worth and value, and like, that's… it's in there, right? Yes, yeah.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.000
Nate Phillips: Yes!

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:15.000
John Molina-Moore: Dude, I think that's, like, because people love to disregard that later part of Matthew 25, of feeding the hungry, right? And…

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:29.000
John Molina-Moore: even just embracing… forget the butt, even just embracing, like, actually, this is what Jesus had asked us to do, is already a step too far for a lot of people. And then when you throw out that, like, butt piece, which is beautiful.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.000
John Molina-Moore: Um… and I, I, I, I think I get…

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.000
John Molina-Moore: The hesitation to embracing that. Um…

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:45.000
John Molina-Moore: Because it's… it's… back to the earlier thing, it's scary, right? I have… I have spent 42 years now.

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.000
John Molina-Moore: Making life like this, because.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:57.000
John Molina-Moore: this is what I was supposed to do, and supposed to be made safe, and if I do all the right things, and prove my worthiness, and now you want me to, like…

00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:01.000
John Molina-Moore: just flip that over? Like, that's terrifying, right?

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:05.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, it's best if you haven't done anything to, like.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:11.000
John Molina-Moore: Think about why you feel safe in this, and… and… back to the process kind of question.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:10.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:13.000
Nate Phillips: Right, right, right.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:20.000
Nate Phillips: And then what happens, and this is where I think… I mean, we could probably do a whole series on this, because we're gonna breeze through all this stuff.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.000
Nate Phillips: Um…

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:29.000
Nate Phillips: what happens, and I'm not just saying for men, but I'm speaking on this because that's what I am, um…

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.000
Nate Phillips: You, you just… you end up… you end up drowning.

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.000
Nate Phillips: Because you can't ever match up.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:41.000
Nate Phillips: Right? And you can never… you see all of this…

00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Nate Phillips: I don't know if it's success, or use… anything that kind of, like.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.000
Nate Phillips: Makes you feel less than, and you turn to things that you shouldn't.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.000
Nate Phillips: You turn… I mean, I… I mean, we're talking about… look, and I don't know why…

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:04.000
Nate Phillips: we don't more openly talk about this, but, you know, we will… I think people will talk more about, like.

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.000
Nate Phillips: Alcohol, drugs, but, like, we…

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.000
Nate Phillips: Pornography is a… is a… is one of those things that people will turn to.

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.000
Nate Phillips: Um, you know, we, we…

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Nate Phillips: Talk about it a little bit, but…

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:21.000
John Molina-Moore: Barely.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:25.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, yeah, barely. I mean, all these, basically these poisons.

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.000
John Molina-Moore: Mhm.

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:31.000
Nate Phillips: You know, I'll say this, you know, alcohol is one that I can speak to. I mean.

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:44.000
Nate Phillips: during COVID, I just started, like, getting this habit of being like, ah, I'm gonna have a little whiskey at the end of the night, right? Like, and then that just never stopped, and then I was like, wait, I kinda need this… this is a poison that I'm putting into my body.

00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:46.000
John Molina-Moore: Got it.

00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Nate Phillips: And, and, and, like, I know that social drinking is sort of one of those things, I mean.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.000
Nate Phillips: you know, I'm not trying to, like.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.000
Nate Phillips: Give anybody a hard time, that's what their choice is, or whatever, but…

00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:05.000
Nate Phillips: I do think it's important if we just say, like, that's a poison, just so we're good, like, we know that, right? It's like, you know, smoking cigarettes, just so we know, like, that's what your choice is, but it's a poison.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.000
Nate Phillips: Well, getting involved in pornography.

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:13.000
Nate Phillips: That's a poison, that's not good. You're doing something to your brain chemistry when you do that.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.000
Nate Phillips: Um, we need to, like, directly…

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.000
Nate Phillips: You know, have those…

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.000
Nate Phillips: things said, what do you think about that, John?

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:27.000
John Molina-Moore: Well, they're… I'm all in, right? And they're… I can't remember who… who… who first…

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.000
John Molina-Moore: said this to me, this, like, 3 or 4 years ago, that.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:36.000
John Molina-Moore: And I hate to play binary stuff, right? But, like, everything is either medicine or poison.

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:55.000
John Molina-Moore: Right? Of what you engage with throughout the world. It is either things that are going to make you more full of who you are, or they are things that are going to make you less, right? And how do we have a conversation about the… and this is where the Stanberry, this works great, right? To evaluate.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:57.000
John Molina-Moore: what the levels of each of those are, right? Because.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:05.000
John Molina-Moore: work can be a drug, right? At that point, it becomes a poison, where you're prioritizing.

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Nate Phillips: Hmm.

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Nate Phillips: Yes, good point.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:18.000
John Molina-Moore: spending time with your kids… I mean, I… it pulls at my heart whenever Arthur asks a question, like, Daddy, why'd you have to work two days this weekend? I'm like, ah! Right? It's rare, but it happens, and I have… if I don't, like.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.000
Nate Phillips: Yup.

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:24.000
John Molina-Moore: balance that out, I'm gonna continue to add chips on Arthur's scale that says.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.000
John Molina-Moore: My dad valued work.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:35.000
John Molina-Moore: over mountain biking with me on the weekends, right? Um, and I can ease… because I love my job, I can easily slip into.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:50.000
John Molina-Moore: I'd fill every possible minute with work, and being productive, and making all the things happen, and getting people to like me. That's poison, even though it feels like it's medicine, because it is not allowing me to live the rest of my.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:53.000
John Molina-Moore: fullness of my life, and I am then shutting off.

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.000
John Molina-Moore: Other portions…

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:01.000
John Molina-Moore: That could be medicine, right? Because I have invested into continuing to consume.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:06.000
John Molina-Moore: the shadowy side, right, of something that initially was supposed to be.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:11.000
John Molina-Moore: you know, I have to, everybody's gotta work. It's the culture that we live in, we can't avoid that one. But the…

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.000
John Molina-Moore: The balance piece becomes your medicine on.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.000
Nate Phillips: Hmm.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:20.000
John Molina-Moore: Actually being a full human being, and doing your best to.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:26.000
John Molina-Moore: Raise other human beings to be more full of a human being than you were, um, at…

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.000
John Molina-Moore: when they're 42.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I… I think…

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.000
Nate Phillips: there is a… there is an aspect of that that is building in habits, too. Um, I remember when I was…

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:44.000
Nate Phillips: I don't know, early on, kids started going to school. I heard somewhere that Bill Clinton.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.000
Nate Phillips: Made it, and I don't know if this is true, I just heard it.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.000
Nate Phillips: Uh, made it so that every day he…

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Nate Phillips: drove Chelsea to school.

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.000
Nate Phillips: And, like, as busy as he was gonna be as president.

00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:01.000
Nate Phillips: that was something he was gonna do. So I don't know why, but I grabbed onto that, and I've just always been like, alright.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:06.000
Nate Phillips: That… that way, I get to see them. I'm taking them to school every single day.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Nate Phillips: Um, I also have a rule that if they ever ask me.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.000
Nate Phillips: To play pass with anything.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Nate Phillips: It's a yes. It's a rule I have. I don't care what I'm doing.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:20.000
Nate Phillips: But it's like, I… if they say, do you want to play pass? Do you want to… I'm like.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.000
Nate Phillips: Yes. So now, it's… I'm locked in. I'm like, alright.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:34.000
Nate Phillips: Here I am, I'm outside, I was doing this, but now this is a yes. It's almost like when a child holds you, hands you a baby and asks you to, like… or a doll and asks you to feed it, you say yes, you know? But for us.

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.000
Nate Phillips: Um, that's… that's one of the rules, so…

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:43.000
John Molina-Moore: I'm stealing that, because I haven't made it a rule yet, but I have been operating like it's a rule. Like, ours is wrestling. Dad, you want to wrestle?

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000
John Molina-Moore: Dropping whatever I'm doing.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, shirts coming off, yes, we're, we're, we're now, we're now in this.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:42:02.000
Nate Phillips: And you let them know that, right? Like, and now they have some power. And they go, okay, you know, that's one thing I can get him to do. And I don't know, maybe that's unhealthy too, because it's just feeding into the whole thing that I was talking about before with sports, but…

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000
John Molina-Moore: Yes.

00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Nate Phillips: You know, the other thing we have to be able to say is we're not gonna be perfect at any of this. Our own health, the health that we're doing, you know, we're trying to instill in our children.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.000
John Molina-Moore: No, correct.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.000
Nate Phillips: And I do think that there's a lot of forgiveness, um, that…

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Nate Phillips: like, probably we need to be extending to ourselves. That's why I say, like, listen, you know, when I'm talking about.

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.000
Nate Phillips: the different quote-unquote poisons, and I'll…

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:29.000
Nate Phillips: like, I'm not trying to give anybody a guilt trip if social drinking is something that they're…

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.000
Nate Phillips: That they, they, they find is a part of their…

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Nate Phillips: healthy life, I'm not trying to say that that's not something they should do, or something that I do. I'm not… I don't know if that…

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:44.000
Nate Phillips: I hope that anybody listening is listening to this with generous ears as well, is all I'm asking.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. Um…

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:54.000
Van Sedita: One of the questions I wanted to ask, you guys have been on a really great tear.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.000
John Molina-Moore: Oh, great.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:58.000
Nate Phillips: That's what happens when you get the two of us together, Ben, I'm sorry.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:57.000
Van Sedita: Um…

00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:00.000
Van Sedita: I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.000
Van Sedita: Um, I don't employ sarcasm in this podcast, I really don't, so when I say it's wonderful, I truly mean it.

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.000
Van Sedita: Um…

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:20.000
Van Sedita: I don't… I don't know what my answer is to this question, but I want to hear what you guys have as an answer. Do you think your inner child, because you've brought it up a few times, both of you.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:25.000
Van Sedita: Do you think it's a thing that exists within you, or do you think you've grown…

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:32.000
Van Sedita: as the inner child? Like, what… what philosophy do you think your subconscious follows?

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:38.000
Van Sedita: In thinking about it. Like, John, when you go biking, are you completely in touch with another side of yourself?

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.000
Van Sedita: As a 12-year-old, or does the 42-year-old man.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.000
Van Sedita: find satisfaction.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000
Van Sedita: in biking.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.000
John Molina-Moore: I think it's a… I think it's a… I think it's a full both.

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.000
John Molina-Moore: Right? Um…

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:51.000
Nate Phillips: Hm.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:05.000
John Molina-Moore: that they're… yeah, I, as a 42-year-old, get full satisfaction still from riding my bike, um, the way that I did as a 12-year-old.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.000
John Molina-Moore: the…

00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:22.000
John Molina-Moore: I feel like that inner child that lives in all of us is still… still constantly needs to know that, like, that it's okay, right? Um, that they're gonna be okay, back to the safe thing, that they're gonna be safe.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.000
John Molina-Moore: I don't think that there's anything that you can… like, you're not gonna…

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:40.000
John Molina-Moore: you're not… it's not gonna outgrow it, right? That inner child in you is never going to leave, because that is the formative stuff that made you, and all the onion layers that then followed, right? That that core is still, um…

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.000
John Molina-Moore: In there, in you.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.000
John Molina-Moore: Say the first part of that question again.

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.000
John Molina-Moore: Because I got lost on the biking one.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:45:00.000
Van Sedita: When you are biking, who is more satisfied? You as a 42-year-old man, or do you feel the 12-year-old in you sort of congratulating the older you?

00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000
John Molina-Moore: Oh, who's more satisfied?

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:04.000
Van Sedita: For feeding it healthy exercise.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:09.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. I think, yeah, it's definitely both, right? The inner child is now fully safe.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:16.000
John Molina-Moore: Right? This is nothing but fun and enjoyment, you're outside, um, your mind is fully distracted from all the worry kind of stuff.

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:24.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, and then my 42-year-old self was like, hey, you're exercising, you're pumping blood, you're continuing to move your muscles, um…

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:31.000
John Molina-Moore: This is good for… this is… you know, all the science says this is good for you, and both of them are fully satisfied.

00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:37.000
John Molina-Moore: when I do that. And the danger, though, is that, like, well, that's now my only tool, right?

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.000
Van Sedita: Mm-hmm.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, that can't be…

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:52.000
John Molina-Moore: you can't… you know, what's the line about, if you only have a hammer, right? Like, I don't have anything else, right? I have nothing else to, like, cope with the stress that's not, well, I'm gonna go… I'm gonna go ride my bike now.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:58.000
Nate Phillips: Well, part of that, too, is, like, they talk about anxiety as just living in the future too much.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.000
Van Sedita: Great.

00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.000
Nate Phillips: Right? And when you're on a bike.

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.000
Nate Phillips: You don't have any choice but to live right in the present.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.000
John Molina-Moore: Go.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.000
Nate Phillips: And so it takes you out of that, and… and…

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:17.000
Nate Phillips: There's such a thing as being, you know, hopeful and planning and needing to have at least somewhat of an eye on the future, obviously. Um, but I do think that.

00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.000
Nate Phillips: And I'm guessing this isn't just a men thing, but I can speak from it.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.000
Nate Phillips: Speak to it from that perspective, that, like.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:30.000
Nate Phillips: Man, living in the future too much is a big problem for me, and I'm sure for a lot of men.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.000
Nate Phillips: Um, like, wait, what's gonna happen?

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:36.000
Nate Phillips: And, um, if I don't do this.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.000
Nate Phillips: And I… and that… and I… going back to…

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.000
Nate Phillips: the story that Jesus is telling.

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.000
Nate Phillips: Right, in Matthew 25. And I just think it's funny, because the more I think about that.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.000
Nate Phillips: The more I think about, like, what would happen if someone stopped in the middle of one of my sermons.

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:53.000
Nate Phillips: And said, oh, this is the whole message. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you didn't listen to the…

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.000
John Molina-Moore: I haven't gotten to, like, the wrap-up yet.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:57.000
Nate Phillips: I haven't gone to the part, I was… that was my setup, um…

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:11.000
Nate Phillips: And, uh, people that listen to this, the biblical people, might want to fight me on this one, but I think that'd be a fun… if anybody is listening that wants to have more on this conversation, love to have that. Talk to Van, and he'll get you on the podcast.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:15.000
Nate Phillips: Um, and uh, yeah, I just think that, like.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.000
Nate Phillips: We… we are doing this thing where…

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.000
Nate Phillips: Our future is dependent.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.000
Nate Phillips: on our work.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000
John Molina-Moore: Go.

00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:29.000
Nate Phillips: And from a faith perspective, I think that, like, if your future is dependent on.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.000
Nate Phillips: like, the work that's already been done in the person of Jesus. Like.

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Nate Phillips: One of the things that's coming up for us is the All Saints Sunday this coming…

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.000
Nate Phillips: Weekend, and the… the notion that.

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Nate Phillips: We have to work ourselves into heaven.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.000
Nate Phillips: Is a part of things for people.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000
Nate Phillips: And, um, one of the things I like to tell folks.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:56.000
Nate Phillips: Is your travel arrangements have already been made.

00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Nate Phillips: Right? The ticket's bought, you know? And so, like, it's funny, you know, as a pastor, that is not something that I think about a lot. I will say that. That's not an anxiety that I live in, is a future that I'm worried about. I will say that.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.000
Nate Phillips: Um…

00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:18.000
Nate Phillips: I worry about a lot of other things, and that makes my anxiety go, and makes me need to get on my bike so that I can get out of that…

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:22.000
Nate Phillips: living in the future too much, but I really do believe that.

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:28.000
Nate Phillips: there's a… there's a spiritual side, like, I honestly, I… you know, I don't really think about this that much.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:33.000
Nate Phillips: But, if that is something that's out there for you, like, what's going on.

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Nate Phillips: With the… the ultimate future question?

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:42.000
Nate Phillips: That's a weight that you, you know, I don't want people to have to carry, to be honest. Like, I just think…

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:46.000
John Molina-Moore: Dude, and I… it's crazy how many people I run into who…

00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:51.000
John Molina-Moore: And there are no official Presbyterian.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:55.000
John Molina-Moore: theological stances on any of this kind of stuff, right? But…

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.000
Nate Phillips: Mhm.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:16.000
John Molina-Moore: I don't see anywhere in our denomination's tradition where that has been, like, enforced, that, like, you have to earn your stamp into heaven, and it can be taken away. That absolutely exists out in American Christian culture, right? I've heard those messages. They've never been said anywhere inside of my…

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:31.000
John Molina-Moore: my, like, Presbyterian life circle, right? Didn't happen at youth group, didn't happen at Triennium, didn't happen ministry at Red Clay. Those messages didn't come there, but I still receive them other places, and I run into folks who have.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:47.000
John Molina-Moore: twice my age, who have been only Presbyterian their whole life, and still hold on to that, like, message that, like, it can be ta- your ticket can be taken away, right? There's something you can do to lose.

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:52.000
John Molina-Moore: the work that Jesus has already done for your eternal, like.

00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:07.000
John Molina-Moore: place. And if you think that, that's gotta be terrifying all the time, right? And it's still… it's still wrapped up in, like, the American prove-yourself identity, so now you have not only your social identity, but your, um…

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:55.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, yeah.

00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.000
Nate Phillips: Uh, yeah.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:26.000
John Molina-Moore: ecclesiastical identity wrapped up in, like, I have to prove my worthiness, because if I don't, the future is a nightmare, and it's all going to fall apart, right? Nowhere is Jesus asking us to live like that, anywhere, ever!

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah…

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:27.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, it's actually, you know, 13th century.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:34.000
Nate Phillips: that this… I mean, so it's not all an American thing, although the American, like, ideal matches up super well with it, so I think it just, like…

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.000
Nate Phillips: It creates this, you know.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:43.000
Nate Phillips: Um, you know, kind of, like, pairing that doesn't… that doesn't do anybody any good, but, like.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:51.000
Nate Phillips: really, in my mind, it's a Dante's Inferno thing, right? So before Dante, St. Francis, right, is one of the…

00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:57.000
Nate Phillips: Um, one of the fathers that we look at as, like, a key figure in, like, the 11th, 12th century.

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Nate Phillips: And he would have said, like, when you die, you just fall into God's love.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.000
Nate Phillips: That's like… and then all of a sudden, Dante writes the Inferno.

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.000
Nate Phillips: And it's an artist's…

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:17.000
Nate Phillips: like, we don't know anything, like, is this guy just got problems? I mean, and it gets grabbed by the church.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:26.000
Nate Phillips: and used, right, so that they could do some fundraising, frankly, in my mind, right? That's when we start charging, we start having these indulgences.

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000
John Molina-Moore: Yep.

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:32.000
Nate Phillips: And… and then we get Martin Luther and the Reformation, and I just don't think it ever got let go of.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:36.000
John Molina-Moore: No. Never got, like, fully, fully fleshed out of the system.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.000
Nate Phillips: You may… maybe don't have the…

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.000
Nate Phillips: Right, you maybe didn't have the indulgences. And then, and then in the, in the…

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:38.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:45.000
Nate Phillips: 20th century, with… well, long before that, but Carl Barth, um…

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:50.000
Nate Phillips: puts a new spin on it, and sort of starts, I think, getting Reformed thinkers.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.000
Nate Phillips: Like, more fully out of that.

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:56.000
Nate Phillips: And we're starting to get some freedom from it.

00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:58.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.000
Nate Phillips: Um, but yeah, you know, that…

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.000
Nate Phillips: That whole concept…

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:04.000
Nate Phillips: of…

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.000
Nate Phillips: Boy, you better… do the thing.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:09.000
Nate Phillips: Or you're going to hell.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:12.000
Nate Phillips: Um, it's so damaging, and it's really, like.

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.000
Nate Phillips: It's like we, we have, we haven't healed from…

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.000
Nate Phillips: A thousand years ago.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:24.000
John Molina-Moore: And even in order for someone to take on the posture of, like.

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.000
John Molina-Moore: Hey, the work has already been done.

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:44.000
John Molina-Moore: let me now live more fully and more abundantly if I know that that is… and where it gets wrapped up in the empire, I won't say just U.S, right? Empire way of moving through the world. Well, if it already has been done, I still need to constantly show my gratefulness to that, right? Rather than, like.

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:45.000
Nate Phillips: Hmm.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.000
John Molina-Moore: I'm just gonna lay back and, like, lean into it.

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, there…

00:52:48.000 --> 00:53:00.000
Nate Phillips: Well, right. Yeah, I mean, there's not a problem with… like, I don't have a problem with gratitude, but what… the story that I've used on this before is, like, you know how much I love Disney World. I don't know, maybe we've talked about this before. You know I love Disney World.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:10.000
Nate Phillips: And, um… I can remember going, and it's the first time on a vacation that this has ever been the case for me. Like, I remember it was like, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.000
Nate Phillips: Where, you know, my flight from Orlando.

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:16.000
Nate Phillips: Was in the evening.

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:22.000
Nate Phillips: But it meant… so it meant that if I wanted, I could go enjoy the park.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.000
Nate Phillips: For most of the day, and…

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Nate Phillips: Um, and then get the flight, though, later that day.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.000
Nate Phillips: But if you've got to manage.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:38.000
Nate Phillips: all of your luggage and stuff, that's a problem, but this resort, this Disney resort, had this great thing, which I had never experienced before, which is…

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.000
Nate Phillips: You gave them your stuff.

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Nate Phillips: Right? When you… at the beginning of the day.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.000
Nate Phillips: They gave the resort your stuff, they, like, checked you in, they did all the things.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:50.000
Nate Phillips: And then you got to go do all that.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:52.000
Nate Phillips: And enjoy that whole day.

00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:57.000
Nate Phillips: A bonus day, and then your travel was managed.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.000
Nate Phillips: And that's sort of how I think about it. Like.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:01.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Nate Phillips: If you could, like, experience your day, like, the baggage, it's all taken care of.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:07.000
John Molina-Moore: Yup.

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.000
Nate Phillips: It's, it's, it's, it's managed for you. The ticket's punched.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.000
John Molina-Moore: We've got it. Yeah.

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:14.000
Nate Phillips: You've got a day now where you can go and you can live into this.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:18.000
Nate Phillips: And it is a living into it without that back…

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.000
Nate Phillips: In your head, oh my gosh.

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.000
Nate Phillips: thing going on.

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:25.000
Nate Phillips: Now, how do you do that without, like.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:31.000
Nate Phillips: Becoming a hedonist, right, is another story.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:36.000
John Molina-Moore: Well, we hear, okay, but staying… staying in that imagery, right?

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.000
Nate Phillips: Like, that, I think, is where… that's…

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:44.000
John Molina-Moore: You wouldn't spend your free day just going around and being a jerk at Disney World. You're not gonna cut in line, you're not gonna, like…

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.000
Nate Phillips: Hopefully not.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:54.000
John Molina-Moore: Right? Hopefully not, because you're gonna be like, well, this is wonderful, right? And I think that's where people think, like, well, what would stop me from just then…

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:51.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:01.000
John Molina-Moore: Indulging with an almond bread, but, like, you wouldn't do that if you actually believe that you're… you are…

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:07.000
John Molina-Moore: You're free, right, to go and do the stuff that you want and enjoy to do.

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.000
Nate Phillips: Well…

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:14.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, and, you know, the people that say that do not appreciate that we're beautifully and wonderfully made.

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.000
John Molina-Moore: Correct. Yes! Yes!

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:20.000
Nate Phillips: They cling to this idea that we are originally messed up.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.000
John Molina-Moore: Yup.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
Nate Phillips: And, of course, what we know is we are originally blessed.

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.000
John Molina-Moore: Yep.

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:31.000
Nate Phillips: Like, that's who we are. And I think that from men, especially, like, we know we're full of junk.

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Nate Phillips: I mean, I know that I'm full of junk, let's put it that way. I'm a mess.

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:40.000
Nate Phillips: But God doesn't see me that way, right? God sees me through Jesus-colored lenses.

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:51.000
Nate Phillips: that grasping maybe can't happen until we know that the travel arrangement's been made. Once we know that, I think what you're saying, John, is that gets triggered. We could, like…

00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:49.000
John Molina-Moore: Correct.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.000
Nate Phillips: And then we can live in a new way.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. There's… there's a… this is… this also be…

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.000
John Molina-Moore: Three other podcast things, too, but the back, back to the… back to the… the men's…

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.000
John Molina-Moore: Health stuff here, right?

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:19.000
John Molina-Moore: men in culture are a gigantic problem, right? Men are the mass shooters, men are the rapists, men are overwhelming the murderers, the violent crime committers. Overwhelming, right? Um…

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:22.000
John Molina-Moore: How, then, do we…

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:28.000
John Molina-Moore: help break out of that, right? I… I… because I'm not a woman, I don't fully…

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:41.000
John Molina-Moore: interact with the full depravity of American masculinity, right? I don't… I don't have to think about walking terrified back to my car at night, but every woman in all of our lives.

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:47.000
John Molina-Moore: have that story, right? They've all had an interaction with… multiple interactions with.

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:55.000
John Molina-Moore: terrible, terrible people, right? And I don't think that those people are showing their stripes to us.

00:56:55.000 --> 00:57:02.000
John Molina-Moore: I think the three of us are normal, well-adjusted American men, with problems and baggage and all of that, right?

00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:08.000
John Molina-Moore: They're not showing it to me, right? I… and I was like, well, then who are these people?

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:13.000
John Molina-Moore: How are they hiding so well, and what then do we get to do, aside from raising sons.

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:12.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.000
John Molina-Moore: What do we do.

00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.000
John Molina-Moore: To help exercise that out of.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:25.000
John Molina-Moore: out of culture, right? Um, I don't have that… I have no answer to that.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:27.000
Nate Phillips: I think part of it's having this conversation.

00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:32.000
Nate Phillips: I think, honestly, I think that there's an aspect of this conversation that isn't happening.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.000
Nate Phillips: Um… and…

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:43.000
Nate Phillips: maybe it is somewhere. You know, and then when I… where I do see it happening, guys, I see it in a way that's like…

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.000
Nate Phillips: Borderline leaning into that?

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:52.000
Nate Phillips: the weird way of being a guy, where I'm like, uh… this kind of freaks me out. Like…

00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah, yeah.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:57.000
Nate Phillips: Like, yeah, I get what you're saying, like, we shouldn't…

00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:04.000
Nate Phillips: drink so much. But then that gets paired with some weird thing that, like, feels political, and…

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:28.000
John Molina-Moore: Yes. Or uber-misogynistic, right? This head of the household, kind of like, I'm in charge, and like, no, that group, at least they talk about it, right? I don't think that it's a healthy outlet of the other side of what it's gonna… it's gonna create a different set of problems down the line, but like, yeah, the normal, well-adjusted American man conversation about what is the healthy posture of what it means to be a man.

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:06.000
Nate Phillips: I'm like, uh…

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Nate Phillips: Right. Yes, exactly.

00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.000
Nate Phillips: Right.

00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.000
John Molina-Moore: And how are weaving.

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:35.000
John Molina-Moore: moving… moving the needle, right? Um…

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah.

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:43.000
John Molina-Moore: Because we don't… we don't talk about it. Yeah, maybe it is starting conversations like this, of, like, well, what is the healthier…

00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:46.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, outlet for that, and if you're…

00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:54.000
John Molina-Moore: If you are a regular American guy who probably coped with sports as your coping mechanism, da-da-da-da-da-da, and then you go.

00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:48.000
Van Sedita: Whoop.

00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:58.000
John Molina-Moore: Years with ev- without ever getting to, um…

00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:07.000
John Molina-Moore: even think about something else, what is the shadow side of that? Is that, then, violent crime and rape and misogyny and all the other terrible stuff?

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:12.000
John Molina-Moore: That goes along with it, um, because you've never had anything to…

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:21.000
Nate Phillips: Right, and then the voices… and even the positive voices that you have, that you might attach to, you know, kind of take you in a way.

00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.000
John Molina-Moore: That's what I don't love, right?

00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:24.000
Nate Phillips: that puts you above women, you know what I mean? Like…

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:25.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:27.000
Nate Phillips: Then there's just very few…

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.000
Nate Phillips: People that are…

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.000
Nate Phillips: Frankly, willing to talk like we are talking.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.000
Nate Phillips: Um…

00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.000
Van Sedita: Well, one of the things that…

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:41.000
Van Sedita: I have a real question about, and it may sound like a loaded question, but…

00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.000
Van Sedita: Because we all know the politically correct right answer here, I guess, but…

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:53.000
Van Sedita: Are we thinking too much in terms of male and female, and not enough in terms of person with different skills?

00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:58.000
Van Sedita: You know what I mean? Because I'm a big proponent of somebody always hanging around the house.

00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:04.000
Van Sedita: To greet the kid when they're home from school, and make a somewhat healthy dinner, and…

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.000
Van Sedita: Help with some kind of homework.

01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.000
Van Sedita: And kind of keep the home sacred?

01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:14.000
Van Sedita: That doesn't have to be a woman, they're incredibly smarter.

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Van Sedita: In many ways, for that kind of stuff.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:23.000
Van Sedita: than me, um, but I think that there's a spectrum of person.

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:30.000
Van Sedita: To stay home, and a spectrum of person to go out and work and deal with the spreadsheets and their corporate headaches.

01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.000
Van Sedita: And selling hot dogs on the corner, or whatever they're gonna do.

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.000
Van Sedita: And the whole men's health thing…

01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.000
Van Sedita: I get very scared for the people.

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:46.000
Van Sedita: And I'm not saying that people who don't identify as a man or don't identify as a woman, I think there's a… there's a spectrum of ability.

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.000
John Molina-Moore: No.

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah, yeah.

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:53.000
Van Sedita: That we kind of disregard when we just talk about men, because the same things that make us healthy make women healthy, too.

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.000
John Molina-Moore: Correct.

01:00:53.000 --> 01:01:04.000
Van Sedita: Um, and so, I'm deviating from my question and kind of trying to prove a point here, um, but I think it's something to, like, look at, and I know that…

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.000
Van Sedita: I think we're, as men, just…

01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:10.000
Van Sedita: Kind of culturally disregarded right now.

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:13.000
Van Sedita: For the last couple of years, and there's a few different social media accounts that…

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:19.000
Van Sedita: speak to that. One of them, I forget her name, but it's a… it's a woman's account. I hope it's not a bot.

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:30.000
Van Sedita: Um, but it's basically saying, you know, like, hey, listen, men have to also be, like, you can't forget about them, they have to take care of themselves, because the suicide rate is much higher than women.

01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:31.000
John Molina-Moore: Yes.

01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.000
Van Sedita: Um, so…

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:34.000
Nate Phillips: Pete, I think that…

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.000
John Molina-Moore: And on your thing on that van, like, because we have yet to…

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:41.000
John Molina-Moore: Balance how much we value those ways of.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:45.000
John Molina-Moore: being part of society, right? We still… not us.

01:01:46.000 --> 01:02:05.000
John Molina-Moore: culture still devalues the very important role of being, like, of being the space of nurture. And we expect women to do that, so therefore it's very easy for us to devalue that one, and overvalue the spreadsheet cruncher, right?

01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.000
Van Sedita: Mm.

01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.000
Van Sedita: Mm.

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:03.000
Van Sedita: Yes.

01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:05.000
Van Sedita: Right.

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:21.000
John Molina-Moore: we have to do a lot of things. One of those is to bring those two… back to the balance of, like, this is how… this is how a whole life is made, right? Where there's nurture, and there is the means so that you can still exist in the world. And those are just as important, and…

01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:24.000
John Molina-Moore: are not… there, there, there is, and this is just…

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:40.000
John Molina-Moore: tricky conversation, right? There's feminine energy in this, and there's masculine energy in this. It doesn't mean that they're four men, and then they're 4 women, but yet we still treat them like this, right? Rather than like this. And maybe if we treat them like this, the people who are.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.000
Van Sedita: Right.

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.000
Van Sedita: Right.

01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:59.000
John Molina-Moore: born male can then feel more comfortable with, like, hey, this actually is more of my calling, to be this portion, and I'm not then ridiculed for it, and I get to lean into my strength, because this is not me, right? And my spouse, she's really great at that. Great!

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:50.000
Van Sedita: Yes.

01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:03.000
John Molina-Moore: Go, go do that, but we… we treat them like this, so you have a…

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:05.000
John Molina-Moore: A whole bunch of men who…

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:08.000
John Molina-Moore: I really probably should be doing this, this side.

01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.000
John Molina-Moore: But they're terrified, because…

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:13.000
Nate Phillips: Doing a lot of hand motions on this podcast, which is so helpful for our listeners.

01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:16.000
Nate Phillips: But what John's trying to say is.

01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.000
Nate Phillips: That there are… that there are, you know, there's a balance between.

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:31.000
Nate Phillips: um, you know, elements that might be considered… elements of living that might be considered more feminine, and obviously, you know, that's part of the spectrum, and it's… I think that…

01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.000
Nate Phillips: All of that makes this conversation.

01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:37.000
Nate Phillips: like…

01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.000
Nate Phillips: I don't know. Almost…

01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.000
Nate Phillips: almost too much…

01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:53.000
Nate Phillips: of a… of a lightning rod for a lot of people to even get into it, right? Like, because if you… if you're gonna be in the camp where it's like.

01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:55.000
Nate Phillips: Well, you know…

01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:00.000
Nate Phillips: There's men, and there's women, and there's men qualities, and there's women qualities, and…

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:07.000
Nate Phillips: And that, you know, like, never the two shall meet, like, that… then you're willing to have these conversations, because you're going to get a lot of people.

01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.000
John Molina-Moore: Here we go.

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:15.000
Nate Phillips: buying into you, and yeah, yeah, yeah, we can… yeah, that's all right. And it's like, but that's gonna leave you empty, because you know deep down.

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.000
Nate Phillips: That's not true. You know that's not true.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.000
Nate Phillips: Like, you… I don't even know why you're so scared of it being true.

01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:23.000
Nate Phillips: And to be honest with you, like.

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:29.000
Nate Phillips: I'm praying for you. Like, like, that's a hard way to live your whole life.

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:31.000
John Molina-Moore: Exhausting. I can't imagine living like that day to day.

01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:37.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, it's just so exhausting, and it's just… because it's an UN… like, it's an untruth that, like, why? Why are you clicking that so closely?

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.000
Van Sedita: Yeah, and you're walking around judging the men who are shopping.

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:41.000
Nate Phillips: Yeah, come on, man, like, stop it!

01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:50.000
Van Sedita: at the grocery store, and yeah, you're like… and one woman at… was checking me out at Wegmans, and she looked me right in the eye and said, do you like shopping?

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:45.000
Nate Phillips: At least stop.

01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:06.000
Van Sedita: And I was like… and I said, uh, you know, she was older, and I was like, yeah, I get to pick the junk I want, and I don't… but no one else is telling me what to do, and I get to buy the kind of expensive meat that my partner wouldn't buy, because she's a little more frugal.

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:11.000
Van Sedita: And, you know, I understood what she was saying, but I just answered her honestly.

01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:11.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.000
Nate Phillips: But I need to say this other part.

01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:13.000
John Molina-Moore: Yup.

01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:17.000
Nate Phillips: And this is not gonna make anybody happy either. There's the other side of it.

01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:20.000
Nate Phillips: Which is, unless I completely buy in.

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:23.000
Nate Phillips: To, like, that there, there, there isn't…

01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:27.000
Nate Phillips: Like, like, there's nothing that's different between us.

01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:32.000
Nate Phillips: then there's a whole group of people that'll reject that part of the conversation, too. I'm not here for that, either.

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:33.000
John Molina-Moore: Yep. No.

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:37.000
Nate Phillips: Like, I can only speak from my own experience, and I'm not gonna apologize for it. Like, this is…

01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:46.000
Nate Phillips: this is real. I mean, that's what I'm trying to do, is put this out as, like, this for me, and I think for the two of you, this is the real thing, is… is…

01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:51.000
Nate Phillips: That there are things that we as men have as experiences.

01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.000
Nate Phillips: That are worth us being able to, like.

01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:55.000
Nate Phillips: Open up and share about.

01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.000
John Molina-Moore: Yep, yup, yup, yup.

01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.000
John Molina-Moore: Um, I do have hope that, like.

01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:10.000
John Molina-Moore: we're… with conversations like this, and other things… like, other things that I've even seen in recent years that we're, like, we are moving, right? I remember in 2020.

01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:16.000
John Molina-Moore: We saw a kid in diapers, and there was a stat that came out that compared 2020 to 1980.

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.000
John Molina-Moore: And in 1980.

01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:26.000
John Molina-Moore: 90% of men had never changed a diaper, and in 2020, 90% of dads.

01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:31.000
John Molina-Moore: change diapers, right? So, in 40 years, you had to, like.

01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:42.000
John Molina-Moore: a huge shift, and one tiny little thing of something as simple as changing a diaper, but I still run into dudes of an older generation that, like, who are grandparents, and.

01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.000
John Molina-Moore: Have no idea how to do that, because they never had to, like.

01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:49.000
Nate Phillips: Oh, I have a… I have a really good friend.

01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:48.000
John Molina-Moore: Change type?

01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:52.000
John Molina-Moore: We both have really good friends.

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:59.000
Nate Phillips: We both have a really good friend, where, you know, at this point, though, what's funny about that is we'll ridicule him. It's just the opposite of the way it used to be, like, man, come on!

01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:59.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:02.000
Nate Phillips: Like, help out! Yeah.

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:01.000
John Molina-Moore: What are you doing? Yeah.

01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:05.000
John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:06.000
Nate Phillips: Alright, Van, what do you think?

01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:12.000
Van Sedita: I think it's a wrap, guys. Thank you. This has been… this has been awesome. So much energy, so much positivity.

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:17.000
Van Sedita: I'm sorry I agree with you both so much. Um, I could have made it more interesting by…

01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:19.000
John Molina-Moore: There's…

01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:21.000
Van Sedita: By interjecting, and… but I don't think that was the point.

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John Molina-Moore: Keep talking for a second.

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Van Sedita: Sure.

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John Molina-Moore: What's the, um…

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John Molina-Moore: Not the, uh…

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Nate Phillips: Well, I'm glad we could do this, and get this, um…

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John Molina-Moore: Moved.

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Van Sedita: Yeah, yeah, I realize you guys have different schedules than me.

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John Molina-Moore: the book that you guys got to go, which I haven't read yet, I only have Amy's Cliff Notes on it, and it's old now.

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Van Sedita: And I…

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John Molina-Moore: Codependent no more.

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Van Sedita: Yes, oh yeah, that's a…

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John Molina-Moore: Have you…

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Van Sedita: classic in the recovery community, and I just texted you guys an excerpt of a book called, um…

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Nate Phillips: Hm.

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Van Sedita: The happiness curve.

01:07:54.000 --> 01:08:02.000
Van Sedita: about, uh, basically turning 50 is basically what it's about. It's about midlife, and it's by, um…

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Van Sedita: Gosh. Um, Jonathan Roche.

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John Molina-Moore: Did you do…

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Van Sedita: And junk… yeah.

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John Molina-Moore: Nate, did you do Richard Rohr's midlife book at all, falling upwards?

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Nate Phillips: Following upward? Yeah, I read it a while back.

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John Molina-Moore: So, were you in that stage at all?

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John Molina-Moore: When you read it, probably not.

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Nate Phillips: Um, I thought falling upward was a little bit more for…

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Nate Phillips: actually, like, a 60-year-old, to be honest with you. Like, when I read it, I mean.

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Nate Phillips: It really… his whole thing is, like, there are two halves of life, and…

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Nate Phillips: That there's a crisis that needs to kind of happen?

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Nate Phillips: Um, or, yeah, I got the feeling that, like.

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John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

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Nate Phillips: I got the… well, honestly, when I read it, I got the feeling that I wasn't ready for it.

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Nate Phillips: Um, but I also got the feeling that I wondered if anybody.

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Nate Phillips: I wondered if it would miss on a lot of people, because…

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Nate Phillips: There are some people that just…

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Nate Phillips: They don't really feel like they did miss out on anything in life, and that, like, their ego is still…

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Nate Phillips: completely intact, you know what I mean?

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John Molina-Moore: Yeah. And I bet the people in their inner circles would say very differently.

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Nate Phillips: Correct, like, that may be true, but, like, you…

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John Molina-Moore: Yeah.

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Nate Phillips: You know…

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Nate Phillips: Yeah. Alright, I gotta jump on a call here in a minute, so I'm gonna take a break, and uh, yeah, thanks!

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John Molina-Moore: See you all.